Saturday, August 31, 2019

Last Yellowstone Day

On Thursday we got in the car and headed out to circle the park on the Grand Loop Road.  This took us up past the north rim of the Canyon where we got more views of the Falls and even spottted a young eagle on a very protected pinnacle-top nest.

We drove on up through heavy bison land to Mammoth Hot Springs and marveled at the palette of colors produced by generations of calcium laden hot water as it evaporated leaving behind pools of wet color.
Mammoth Hot Springs.
Then it was down the west side of the loop with a very fortunate stop at Artists’ Paint Pots.  Many people miss the sign and drive past this short walk to a cluster of bubbling pools of great color variety ranging from pure white to pinks and blues.  We felt that we had found a secret favorite spot.
Just one of the Artists’ Paint Pots.
Our last stop of the afternoon was at the Grand Prismatic Spring, a gigantic circular pool that not only  displays its own range of yellow-orange-brown-blue colors but also sends a multicolored waterfall down into the Firehole River.
Grand Prismatic Spring.

We ended the day with dinner at Old Faithful Inn and our last great campfire back at the campground.  Tomorrow we are off to the Grand Tetons.

Friday, August 30, 2019

Yellowstone Geyser Day

Wednesday was our geyser day at Yellowstone.  We spent the entire day in the Old Faithful Geyser Basin and during that day we saw Old Faithful erupt three times, but, the highlight was, we managed to see major eruptions of seven other geysers.

Old Faithful is the easy one to see.  It is close to the Visitor Center and the times are very predictable (and posted both at the Center and in the Old Faithful Inn lobby).  When we arrived it was due in twenty minutes, so we lingered there for the first big show.
It is Old Faithful.
Afterwards we walked big big circle loop all around the geyser basin and took about a hundred photos.  It was a gorgeous day with beautiful clouds to compliment the steam of the geysers.

Surprise eruption of Beehive Geyser.

Our next goal was Riverside, a geyser that projects out over the river and lands sparkling in the river itself.  On the way there we suddenly saw a big surprise eruption: it was Beehive Geyser beginning a full ten minute tall, spurting eruption. If that were not enough, suddenly Aurum Geyser began to erupt, with the two of them finishing simultaneously.
Riverside Geyser.

After Riverside and a short walk to Morning Glory Pool, we headed up to wait for Grand Geyser, one I had never seen in eruption.  While we were walking there, Daisy Geyser went off.  This was unexpected as Daisy had erupted early the same day and was not predicted.


Morning Glory Pool.

We waited about twenty minutes for Grand Geyser, being told by Park Rangers and volunteers that it would be worth all the wait.  It certainly was!  We were told that this Geyser goes up to two hundred fifty feet while Old Faithful barely hits one hundred.  In addition, it is a massive eruption coming out of three openings and lasting about twenty minutes.  Any sort of wait is worth it if you have a chance to experience Grand Geyser.


Back to camp for fire and rest before another anticipated day.

Yellowstone

On Wednesday we arrived at Yellowstone for our three-day visit there.  With no internet connection, the posts from there are delayed until we re-enter electronic civilization.

The Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone was our first stop.  The yellow and ochre canyon walls are the obvious source of the Yellowstone name.  But, the canyon is so dominated by the two great waterfalls, Upper and Lower Yellowstone Falls that one could be forgiven for not noticing the coloration.

Lower Falls from Artists’ Point.

As we left the Canyon and headed toward our Grant Village campground, we first began to encounter the Yellowstone bison.  It is truly the land “where the buffalo roam” as their numbers seemed to multiply around each curve in the road.  It is lovely to see this growing and healthy herd after the devastation of nineteenth-century slaughter.

Since they were here first, it is right for the, to still have the right of way.

Camp was made in the afternoon with big plans for the following day.  It was a great campfire and early to bed as we look forward to tomorrow.

The highlight of each day is our campfire evening.

Monday, August 26, 2019

Into Idaho

Seventeen days from home we have now traveled 4,347 miles and are in Idaho.  Here it is time for digging potatoes, harvesting corn, and making hay.  There is hay everywhere with gigantic rectangular bales that are so large the length of one totally crosses an eighteen-wheel flatbed trailer from side to side.  We see the endless fields being baled and keep meeting dozens and dozens of triple-trailer trucks hauling their magnificent loads.

Much of the hay looks like alfalfa, but a lot also looks golden like wheat straw.

We’ve never seen haybales this size!

The endless potato fields are beginning to wilt, so, the digging can’t be far behind.  And then there is corn...   It is beautiful farmland worked over by gigantic machinery.  I keep wondering what my farmer-grandfathers would think of all this after their lives with oxen and horses.

Beautiful Farmland seem to have no end.

Along the way today we traveled through Craters of the Moon National Monument.  Established during the presidency of Calvin Coolidge, at that time people thought this volcanic landscape must surely be what the moon looked like.  On the visitors’ record map at the National Park Center no one from Ocracoke had ever added a pin!  We did that and the island is now documented as sending at least two visitors.

Craters of the Moon National Monument.

Tonight we camp in Idaho Falls and tomorrow begin our great adventure in Yellowstone.  Stay tuned!

Saturday, August 24, 2019

Finishing Yosemite

This morning we left Yosemite Valley to drive to Sparks, Nevada, thinking that our Park visit was finished.  Not so.  We were taking the Tioga Pass Highway, a route that I had never taken all the way out the east side of the park to Mono Lake.  This road is closed a good part of the year due to snow, and there were still visible patches of snow today.

We traveled up toward Tuolomee Meadows, about nine thousand feet and high above the valley flor below.  Suddenly we could see the back of Half Dome, including (with binoculars) people climbing the cables on the back side up to the top of the dome itself.  If was a beautiful sight on a beautiful day.

The Back Side of Half Dome.

Just past there is Tanaya Lake, blue and clear and snow-melt cold.  The Tioga Pass Highway ends at Lee Vining, California, right on the edge of Mono Lake.

Tanaya Lake nested in the High Granite Domes.
Then we headed north to our campground outside Sparks, but, there was to be one more stop.  I could not resist wanting to visit the National Automobile Museum in Reno.  Trish agreed.  We went there and had a great time with the large collection, including many one-of-a-kind historic vehicles, that came from the estate collection of the late Bill Harrah (yes, the casino Harrah).  Our favorites were the cars we remember from our own childhoods.

Trish with a beautiful pre-war Packard.
Tomorrow we leave Nevada and drive up into Idaho on our way toward Yellowstone.

Friday, August 23, 2019

Another Day in Yosemite

Today was our second day in Yosemite Valley.  It was beautiful and clear with a solid blue sky framing the granite cliffs and domes above us.  We realized when walking this morning that we had recently been looking thousands of feet DOWN into the Grand Canyon, and now we  were looking thousands of feet UP from the Valley floor to the rock peaks and edges above us.

Our Morning Walk around the Valley Floor.
The past several times I have been here were all in the early spring of the year when the tourist population was quite low.  This time, in the midst of busy times, we found that we did not want to take the car out and try to drive and park on our own.  So, we took a Valley Floor Scenic Tour riding in an open tram and hosted by a well-informed Park Ranger.  After this two hour tour, we would both recommend it to anyone coming into the Valley, especially first time visitors.

Bridal Veil Falls, one Waterfall that flows all Year
We got a lot of geological history as well as human history, saw the most outstanding sites from excellent perspectives, and even saw a black bear along the way. I am afraid to even guess at the number of pictures we took along the way.

The First View of Yosemite Valley coming out of the Highway Tunnel.
The day ended with a splendid dinner at the Ahwahnee dining room.  Tomorrow we drive up over Tioga Pass and over into Nevada.  New adventures are in store.

End of the Day in Yosemite Valley.

Yosemite Valley

This afternoon we arrived in magnificent Yosemite Valley, which is spectacular even in the dryness of late summer when the waterfalls do not have much water with which to play.

Even though we love traveling and staying in our Airstream, in Yosemite it is impossible to bypass spending a couple of nights at the lovely and hospitable Ahwahnee Hotel.  Opened in 1927, the Ahwahnee offers the essence of charm and good hosting.  Our room actually looks out directly at Yosemite Falls.
The Beautiful Ahwahnee Hotel

After getting checked in, we went out and walked for about five miles before dinner.  We walked up to the falls and back down by the meadow where our initial views of Half Dome completed the afternoon.  I have been here, I believe, eight times, but Trish has never been.  It is a delight to get to see things through her first time eyes.

Half Dome in the Afternoon Sun.

This evening we were well fed in the beautiful Ahwahnee Dining Room.  Now it if off to bed looking forward to a full day in the Valley tomorrow.  We need good sleep to empty our eyes and minds so we can fill them up afresh tomorrow.
Yosemite Falls from our bedroom window. 



Wednesday, August 21, 2019

Sequoia and Kings Canyon

Today has been a beautiful day in the mountains of California.

We left the Airstream in our Visalia campground this morning and headed east toward Sequoia National Park.  Since Trish is subject to carsickness, and since we were not pulling the Airstream, it was the perfect time for her to drive for the day.

By the time we entered Sequoia National Park the temperature had dropped from 90 to 65...formula starting for a perfect day.

No matter how many times I have been here, there is no way to emotionally remember the heart impact that comes with the first vision of the giant trees.  And, there are so many of them.  It is not just a freakish one or two, they roll on by the hundreds, towering well over two hundred feet tall with many being more than twenty feet in diameter.

Trish almost hiding in the fire scar of a giant unnamed Sequoia..

The sky was pure clear blue framing the towering tops of these giants.  We stopped again and again to silently stare and breathe deeply as we thought of their two millennia lives and more.

They even come in bunches!
The road goes on to Kings Canyon National Park (originally called General Grant National Park in 1890).  More gigantic trees, including one fallen hollow behemoth that was already being used as a picnic shelter in 1900.

The climax was a visit to the tree named General Grant, a designated National Memorial for all people fallen in service to their country.  At 278 feet it is nearly as tall as a thirty story building and taller that the Space Shuttle upright on its launchpad.



Tomorrow we go to Yosemite for more ways to fill our eyes and hearts.


Tuesday, August 20, 2019

Grand Canyon at Last

I could not post for the past two days as we had no internet connection.  Now we are back in the electronic world.

We left Camp Verde, Arizona, on Sunday morning and visited Montezuma Castle National Monument.  It is impossible to really understand all the hows and whys of these structures as you look up at them from far below knowing that people built them and lived here more than a thousand years ago.

Why and How?
By mid-afternoon we had arrived at Trailer Village at the Grand Canyon and set up camp.  Then we unloaded our bikes and took a long ride remembering where everything is and re-learning how to get around there. On the bike ride we met the present day mules who now do the work of those Merle and I rode years ago.  I think they had been warned about me as they either looked away or lowered their heads in prayer!

I shall never get on one of these creatures again!
The afternoon is such a beautiful time at the Canyon as the sun drops and shadows begin to highlight all the features of the vast scene.  We ate early so we could have leisure time along the rim up until sunset.  The brilliance of color magnified by the setting sun cannot be described except to stand there in silence for a long long time.

Remembering the Bright Angel Trail to the bottom.
The following day we visited the rim from Mather Point to Hermit’s Rest, taking dozens of pictures and saying the same repeated statements of wonder over and over again.  In the Hopi House Craft Shop there was a saying posted from an unidentifiable native.  “When all the forests are cut, when all the animals are killed, when all the fish are caught, when all the rivers and the sea are poisoned, only then will men realize that you cannot eat money.”

Our departure look at the Canyon
This morning we left the Canyon for a long drive to Visalia, California where we will have two days for Sequoia and King’s Canyon  National Parks.

Saturday, August 17, 2019

Maintenance Day

Today we are having a general rest and maintenance day.  This means: time for laundry, time to clean the Airstream and put it in order, time to reorganize the car and its contents, time to fill the propane tanks, time to check the tire pressure and adjust it when needed.

We are camping near Sedona canyon taking our time and getting everything back in order before going to the Grand Canyon tomorrow.  More news then!

Trish enjoying our campfire on a nearly-full-moon night.

Friday, August 16, 2019

Pueblos and Parks

Today was a day filled with great adventures.

We left Albuquerque this morning and traveled about sixty miles west to Acoma Pueblo.  (We are
listening to Willa Cather’s DEATH COMES FOR THE ARCHBISHOP as we drive, a book with major settings in New Mexico and Acoma Pueblo in particular.)

The Acoma people are a Native tribal group who have occupied this mesa-top Pueblo nearly 400 feet above the floor of the land for more than 2,000 years.  We had a wonderful guide named Brandon whose grandmother and parents still live atop the Mesa.  It was a beautiful visit.

The Acoma Pueblo mission church atop the Mesa.  Finished 1630.
After leaving Acoma we continued west and finished the day at The Painted Desert and The Petrified Forest both part of the Petrified Forest National Park.

One view of the spectacular range of colors to be seen at The Painted Deaert.”

We could have stayed for hours exploring The Petrified Forest with thousands of giant logs, now preserved in the beautiful agatized colors of the stone that gradually replaced them over countless eons of time.  It was impossible to imagine what gigantic forest of living trees originally fed what we see here today.

Thursday, August 15, 2019

Poteau, Oklahoma

Until Trish was nine years old, her father had a career in the Navy.  Since her mother had grown up on a farm in Poteau, Oklahoma, whenever her dad was deployed on a Navy assignment, the rest of the family would go back to live on the farm in Poteau.

Poteau is down in the southeast corner of Oklahoma and is mountainous and mostly forested.  There is a beautiful and little-traveled scenic highway called the Talimena Scenic Highway that goes from Mena, Arkansas over into Oklahoma south of Poteau.  This was our route there from Hot Springs.

The original farmhouse is still there, and it has been enlarged and brought quite up to date by Trish’s Uncle Truman and his wife, Aunt Linda.  (They even have a 30 amp plug so we could plug the Airstream in and have air conditioning in the driveway.)

Trish with Uncle Truman and Aunt Linda in front of the Poteau farmhouse.
We left Poteau early this morning to make a major move west.  Tonight we are in Albuquerque after driving 737 miles today.  The drive enables us to slow down a lot over the coming days and take our time around the southwest.

Along the way we did stop for a visit at the Route 66 Museum in Clinton, Oklahoma.  For anyone who grew up with the legends and stories of America’s First Highway, this museum is a must.
At the Route 66 Museum.



Wednesday, August 14, 2019

Hot Springs, Arkansas

Yesterday and today Trish and I have been in Hot Springs, Arkansas.

We came to Hot Springs for two reasons.  The first is that we faithfully collect National Park visits as we travel.  Hot Springs National Park is our fourth National Park in five days of this trip.

Before the very idea of a National Park existed, Hot Springs was set aside in 1832 as an area to be preserved for public recreation.  The mineral content of the water and the fact that most Americans did not have hot water in their homes made Hot Springs a spa town visited by thousands of people each year.

In 1921 the recreation reservation became our nation’s smallest National Park.  This was in part to preserve “Bathhouse Row,” the line of huge bathhouses that were by that time waning in popularity.

The Buckstaff Bathhouse where Trish and I each had a total bathhouse treatment.
Today two bath houses operate as National Park concessions while the others are used as National Park visitor center or preserved for historic value.

The second reason for our visit to Hot Springs is that the city is important in Trish’s family history.

It was her father’s home town and the home of her grandparents on that side of the family as well.  When her mother went to Hot Springs to nursing school at the old St. Joseph’s Hospital there (now the site of the Arkansas School of Math and Science), that educational adventure also included meeting her future husband.

Trish as her grandparent’s gravesite in Greenwood Cemetery,  Hot  Springs
In Trish’s childhood there were many trips to visit in-laws in Hot Springs.  We found her grandparents home, ate at their favorite restaurant (McClard’s Barbeque), and visited the cemetery where they are buried.  We also visited St. Joseph’s Hospital at its historic original location.



Monday, August 12, 2019

Great Smoky Mountains National Park

From about 1890 to around 1920 the mountains of Western North Carolina and East Tennessee were devastated by the logging industry.  Vast woodlands were clear cut leaving the soil loose and unprotected.  Fires consumed the scrap that was left and landslides where all too common.

The idea for a National Park did not come into being because the mountain land was beautiful.  No, the idea came because so much damage has been done it was hoped that such protection might allow the dear land to recover and heal.  Almost all of the vegetation and most of the wildlife in the Park is new growth and recovery over less than the last hundred years.

Efforts to raise money were taking place in the early years of the Great Depression.  After, with great difficulty, the people of North Carolina and Tennessee raised half of the needed money for the Park, fund raising stalled down.  Hopes were down until the Rockefeller Fund donated the other half in memory of Laura Spelman Rockefeller.  The only visible acknowledgement of this gift is on a plaque at Newfound Gap where President Franklin Roosevelt stood to dedicate the Park in 1940.

Perhaps the newest addition to the Park has been the reestablishment of the elk that had been natively present until hunted to extinction more than a hundred years ago.  In 2000-2001 elk were brought into the Park from The Land Between the Lakes in Western Kentucky and also from British Columbia.  The return has settled into such success that the elk in the Park and beyond have now passed determinate number.

A young elk having his breakfast.
The Great Smoky Mountains National Park is unique in many ways:  there are more species of trees in the Park than in all of Europe from Turkey to Ireland, and, there are more than thirty species of salamanders in the Park making it the salamander capital of the world.

The Park was also established with the charter provision that it always be open to the public free from any admission fee.  Knowing this, we can all take advantage over and over keeping it one of the most visited Parks in our national system.



This is why they are called the Smoky Mountains!


Cataloochee Reunion

Even today getting to remote Cataloochee Valley in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park involves driving a dozen miles on a dirt road across the Cataloochee Divide from the Waynesville, NC side toward the Tennessee state line.  It is difficult to imagine the travel and access issues faced by the earliest settlers when they began to move into the valley in the early 1800’s.

Even the Cherokee people used the valley as a hunting area rather than permanently living there.

In the 1900 census there were 54 farms in the big valley occupied by 112 families with a total of 768 people.  Yes, those families were very large; more working children made survival easier.

Cataloochee’s Palmer’s Chapel Methodist Church with reunion attendees gathering.
Nearly 500 people gathered on this 81st year.
The terrible destruction of the logging era followed by the advent of the Great Depression left these families in great hardship by the time the idea for the National Park became a reality.  By the time the Park was established in 1934, except for a small number of residents with lifetime tenancy, the population of the valley had moved away, selling their land for the National Park.

This year only two people were present who were born in the Valley.  The hundreds who were gathered are still affirming their family history and love of that beautiful place.  

The event starts with a church service in Palmer’s Chapel presided over by Steve Woody, descendent of the Steven Woody family.  The church is named for my Uncle Gudger Palmer’s family, who donated the land where it stands.  After church, there is a great time of eating and visiting, then goodbye until next August.
Trish in the yard of my Uncle Gudger’s childhood home.
The Palmer house is now a National Park Visitor Center.

Saturday, August 10, 2019

Jonathan and Kahran

Well, we are now underway!  Trish and I left the island yesterday and traveled to Greensboro.  Our son, Jonathan, and his fiancĂ©, Kahran, life in Greensboro.  Before our trip is over we will be coming from the west back to New Orleans for their wedding on September 21.  I am performing the ceremony, and, since I have not done this in a long time, we needed to get together for one more meeting to work over the entire plan.

Jonathan and Kahran
We met them for dinner, along with Jonathan’s mom, Beth, and then got a chance to pretend that we all know what we are doing and that we are actually prepared for September 21!  It was an excellent time.

Today we have driven on up to my home town. Waynesville, to be ready for the Cataloochee Reunion in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park.

Before the Park was established in 1934 some of my forebears lived there.  My Uncle, Gudger Palmer, was 100 years old the year the Park turned 75.  He died in 2012 at age 103.

Most of the native born people of Cataloochee have gone on from this world, but, each August for 81 years, their descendants and friends gather to remember the days when a significant early community lived in the remote valley and to celebrate the care and perpetuation of National Park stewardship.

We are camped in our Airstream beside Jonathan’s Creek, one of the places where I actually played and camped as a child.  Tomorrow will be a great day with a service at Palmer’s Chapel Methodist Church followed by dinner on the grounds.

You will hear more about Cataloochee when the day is over.



Tuesday, August 6, 2019

Getting Ready To Travel

All this week we are at home on the island working each day to get ready for a big upcoming trip.  By the middle of August it is getting hot on Ocracoke and, besides that, we are in hurricane season (though there have been no storms in the Atlantic so far this year).  It is a good time to travel and then come back later in the fall when things cool down and the weather stabilizes.

Our Little Home on the Island
On Friday we will leave on a nine week trip across the United States.  We will be going to seventeen states and visiting fifteen National Parks along the way.  We will also be working some along the way.  Work includes the Timpanogos Storytelling Festival, school visits in Utah, the Cave Run Storytelling Festival, Teller in Residence at the International Storytelling Center, the National Storytelling Festival, and a residency as Event Leader at The Swag, the Great Country Inn of the Smokies.

We will also be coming by New Orleans for the wedding of our son, Jonathan and his fiancé, Karan.

For the whole trip we will be traveling in our Airstream camper trailer.

The Space Station Pulled by our Gray Car.

We call our Airstream The Space Station, because when you are in there you are in a world of your own.  The good thing is that our regular car pulls it so we always have the car with us for touring around along the way.  The camper is 23 feet long and it has all that we need.

The Blogging plan is to make a report on most days about where we are and what we are seeing there.  You may also get to meet some of the people we are with along the way.

We hope this will be fun for everyone!







Monday, August 5, 2019

Celebration Day

When Trish and I got married, both of our families got instantly larger.  She gained three sons, (without labor, delivery, adolescence or tuition) two daughters-in-law, (and another in September) and two more grandchildren.  I added two more children, (a son and a daughter) a daughter-in-law, and four and three-fourths additional grandchildren.

Last Friday we got to be with Trish’s son, Greg, and his family on a very special day.

Trish and Greg

Greg and his wife, Annette, are both career Air Force.  Much to our good fortune they are now stationed at Seymour Johnson Air Force Base in Goldsboro, North Carolina.

Annette is a Master Sergeant RAPCON Chief Air Controller.  Greg is an APG Section Chief supervising F-15 care and maintenance.

On Friday Trish and I got to be there for the formal ceremonies in which Greg was promoted to Master Sergeant.



Trish grew up in a military family, but I grew up with no experience like that.  This was all new to me.

Early in the day we got to go with Greg to where he works and see the F-15s up close.  I am amazed by the immense complexity of these planes and by the skill and knowledge it must take to be able to know and deal with every part of them.

That evening we went to the ceremonies.  There was a medal presentation, then an awards dinner, then a procession through crossed swords leading to the promotion presentation itself.  It was an impressive evening, especially to see the supportive relationships among all those who serve together.

So, for now, Annette no longer outranks Greg....but watch out, she is not to be sitting still for long.





Thursday, August 1, 2019

Out For a Visit

Today we are on the ferry heading off the island for a four day trip to see three of our five children and four of our 6 ¾ grandchildren.  On August 9 we will leave home on a nine week trip across the country and this is our last chance to see a few family members and take care of some errands that need to be done before the long trip.

Leaving the Island on a Stormy Day.

We are staying for two nights in Cary, NC, on the edge of  Raleigh, where tonight we will see our son, Kelly, and our five-year-old grandson, Frank.  Frank’s mom, Erin, has out-of-town company this evening and we will miss her.

Erin works as the Director of Durham's Central Park, a site that is also home to the Durham Farmers' Market.  Kelly works at Duke University where he is the manager of an interdisciplinary research program that studies communications between physicians and their patients, especially when those relationships involve decision making with regards to treatment and care.

Frank is in love with space, planets, and astronauts.  He knows more about the science of the universe and space travel than we will even know.  On the last visit he was trying to explain the nature of plasma to us and we got tangled up somewhere between the neutrons and the protons…we had already lost the electrons.

Tonight we are bringing him a pillowcase that Trish made for him after locating material that has planets on it.  He will also get a little bracelet that has beads of all the planets strung on it in their proper order out from the sun.

Tomorrow we get to visit with our son, Doug, and his wife, Jill, in Raleigh.  Doug is a Clinical Psychologist who works mostly with juveniles.  Jill is the script supervisor for a TV show called “Love it or List It,” and also a free lance photographer.  You can see a lot of her stuff at orangecatart.com. 

Friday we go on down to Goldsboro, NC where our son, Greg, and his wife, Annette, are both in the Air Force and presently stationed at Seymour-Johnson Air Force Base.  Annette is a flight controller and Greg is an APG Section Chief working on F-15 jets.  He has just been promoted to Master Sergeant and Friday evening we will get to attend the formal ceremony where he officially gets his new stripes.

Then it will be back home to pack for the long trip.  That trip will take us to seventeen states.  Most of the BLOG entries during that time will be following along during that trip.  

Want to come  along?

Epcot Flower Festival

 Trish and I cannot fully have springtime without a visit to Disney World.  We came down for nine days and are here in the middle of the Epc...